Horse And Carriage?

I came across this post last Friday night that was apparently causing quite a stir in the blogosphere. After you read the first highlighted post you can also read about the Completing Him challenge straight from Courtney’s blog here. Before I tell you what I think of Scary Mommy’s post as well as Courtney’s  I’ll give you guys a minute to read it.

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Ok. Done? Ready?

What are your thoughts on Scary Mommy’s post? What are your thoughts on Courtney’s Completing Him challenge and her views on marriage?

I understand that Scary Mommy’s whole “thing” is snark and sarcasm so I’m not too surprised by what she wrote and how she wrote it in regards to her thoughts on the challenge. She totally thinks Courtney’s challenge is a bunch of  crap and used her blog and sarcastic way of writing to make fun of it. I get that. What I was taken aback by was the comments by her readers! Whoa! Way over the top nastiness!!  Comments on her looks? Comments that her husband is probably cheating on her? I was taken aback by the rock bottom level some of these women sunk to. (And I shouldn’t be because I’ve seen these kinds of comments on other blogs). The whole thing just felt mean and uncalled for.

Wow!!

Apparently, marriage and the roles in marriage are a HOT and touchy topic in  bloggyland. I just don’t “get” nasty and downright mean comments. I just don’t. Call me crazy. Call me naive. I know you put yourself “out there” when your blog is public and you open yourself up to criticism. I have read so many blog posts and comments that I couldn’t agree less with. If I feel so strongly about what the blogger wrote that I feel I must reply I leave a respectful comment about it. I would never resort to negative comments on their appearance, thoughts on what their husband are probably doing on the side or on how I think their IQ is limited. Usually I don’t reply at all and move on. Unfortunately, too many women lead, nice, proper and even, dare I say, Christian lives during the day but then get on their computer and unleash their inner “mean girl” onto other bloggers because they can hide behind their computer thousands of miles way.

As to what I think about Courtney’s marriage challenge…I’m not sure. I have to admit that a little what-about-me attitude sprung up a bit. I know she’s totally doing this challenge with the right heart and for the right reasons. I totally respect and admire her for that. I think her ministry to women is wonderful! But…not sure this challenge is for me.

I know what the Bible says about marriage. I know how it talks about wives submitting to their husbands and husbands being the head of the household. I agree and believe all of that. However, there are so many different ideas on what “biblical submission” in marriage is.

Here, take a gander at Ephesians 5:21-33 yourself…

21Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

22Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body. 31“For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

I believe God created marriage for a purpose. I believe He does have a plan and a blueprint for how marriage should be. His design is the absolute best.

But what does “wives submit to your husbands” mean to you? My take is this:

We’re a team. A partnership in this marriage. But in this partnership  Mike is the president and I’m the vice president. Mike has the final say so. He will also answer to God one day for how he lead our family. That’s a lot of responsibility! These verses don’t only talk about wives submitting to husbands. It talks about husbands loving their wives like Christ loved the church. Christ died for his church! That’s a lot of love!!  I think too many people blow this chapter way out of proportion and get their panties in a twist over it.  When I’m doing my part in showing love and respect to Mike and honoring him as the head of my home and he in turn is loving and treating me as if it were himself then that’s a lot of love , honor and respect flowing from both sides.That’s a great marriage right there!  It’s all in the attitude and the spirit by which you view and live out your marriage. If you’re coming at it from a stand point of  nitpickiness ( well, who’s job is it to do the dishes?I do them way more than he does…waahhh) and keeping a score card then your marriage will suffer. It doesn’t matter who does the dishes or the cooking. Each couple works out those details however it works for their marriage. It’s the attitude and the spirit that counts. If you’re doing all the dishes, cooking the meals, cleaning the house and rubbing your husband’s feet every night when he comes from work, but doing it with resentment and a terrible attitude than….you’re missing the point! That’ s not what this passage is talking about. Talk with your  husband and work something out that works for both of you.

So…. lots of food for thought.

What do you think?  Do you like to unleash your inner “mean girl”? Are you at peace with her and don’t think it’s a problem to lambaste other bloggers in their comment section? What do you think of the Completing Him challenge? What are your thoughts on marriage?

Oh boy, I really want to hear from you guys on this!

p.s In case you were wondering, Courtney does respond (in a Christ like and class way)  to ScaryMommy and all other naysayers of her challenge here. You can also read a great  article that ShePosts wrote about ScaryMommy and Courtney here.


Comments

  • SandraJane

    I love Scary Mommy and did chuckle at her take on it. Her readers, however? Hello, nastiness. Totally mean and uncalled for.

  • http://www.simplymelsblog.com/ Simply Mel

    I think Scary Mommy is funny too, although I think she can lean towards the mean sometimes. I guess I'm just not a sarcastic person for the most part! But, her reader comments? Lawd! I haven't seen such venom over one person's blog post in a long time! I give SM props for the comment she left for Courtney and also for admitting to wondering if she had gone too far in her. That was mature and responsible on her part. And Courtney's response was CLASSY.

  • Christina

    Wow, I just have SOOO much to say about this whole thing that I can't possibly take that much time out of work right now to write it all.

    Let me say this: I have an uber-traditional view of marriage. Little House, Waltons, Cleavers—those are the husband/wife roles that I cherish and espouse. My husband Peter and I have one of the closest, most loving relationships around. I would do ANYTHING for my husband as long as it didn't interfere w/ my #1 relationship w/ God. And Peter would never ask/require anything of me that would fall into that category anyway.

    I love that marriage challenge, I live it and breathe it every day. I'm so glad someone had the time to put it into words and share it with the world!

    One of my BIGGEST pet peeves? I cannot STAND hearing wives bash/beat/complain/criticize their husbands in front of the world. It's WRONG, its IMMORAL and it's breaking the sacred trust between husband and wife. I'm not talking about discussing your relationship concerns w/ your most trusted friends or accountability partner… I'm talking about those gals who just lay it all out there, and are NEVER happy, and NEVER think they have ANYTHING to do about it, or any contributions that THEY'VE made to the problem.

    My final comment… A happy hubby makes a happy wifey. Love him. Support him. Trust him. Protect him. RESPECT him. And then he'll do the same for you!

    (Really wish I could write more…) sorry for the brevity!
    :) — Christina

  • Waldo'sWorld

    I think her heart is in the right place. I think she really wants to be a good wife and believes to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. They probably have a great marriage to start with and she wants to make it even better.

    No I would not leave a nasty message. But then again, I hate having the feeling that someone is mad at me. :) I don't think it's appropriate to be mean. You can give your opinion without being mean about it. No one wants to listen to someone being mean, but they will listen to opposing opinions if they are said respectfully.

  • Lydia

    First off, I also don't understand mean comments about a blog post that you disagree with. If you don't like what you read, then don't read it, there's absolutely no point in being rude and disrespectful towards someone simply for the way they believe.
    Secondly, I love sarcasm, but not at the expense of other people's feelings. I think writing a blog solely based on mocking another blogger's blog, is rude and uncalled for, sarcastic or not.
    Now, having said that, I disagree with Courtney's definition of submission. While I definitely agree that women should support, love and respect their husbands and they should never, ever bad mouth them for the sake of joining in on the conversation of husband bashing, I have a very hard time with the idea that keeping our husbands happy is solely our responsibility. As if they have no control over making themselves happy (or more importantly, turning to God for their happiness). I'm not going to go out of my way to make my husband unhappy, but his happiness is not my main focus for my existence. I think it's both spouses who are equally responsible for sharing in love and respect towards each other. There are some men who are treated like a king by their wives and they, in turn, treat their wives like slaves, not like the queen she deserves to be treated based on her treatment of him. So just because someone treats their husband a certain way, does not guarantee their husband is going to reciprocate those same feelings and actions.
    But I will say that I like the part where she talked about refraining from nagging and eye rolling. Anytime I disagree with something, I have to ask myself if I feel strongly enough about the particular situation to the point where I need to speak up and make it a big deal which could result in an argument or if I can just say forget it and move past something that I really don't like or agree with. I think that helps to cut down on arguments and nagging.
    Sorry this is insanely long! This includes many subjects that I had an opinion on. lol

  • http://www.simplymelsblog.com/ Simply Mel

    Thanks for your input, Christina. I agree about the husband bashing, although I do think you hate it more than I do! But, if you read any of the comments that those women made about this marriage challenge you'll see all sorts of uflattering things these women had to say about their husbands. I don't “love” this challenge per se because many of the thing she tell us to do are just not what Mike and I do! That's not how our relationship works. I'm not going to sit down and ask him what he finds most important about what I do during the day and prioritize it. I'm here on the home front doing what I know needs to be done! That's my “job” so to speak. He's doing his thing at work and I”m holding down the fort here. Do I ask for his input in stuff here at home? Of course? And needs to have input as well. That's just a small example of the larger picture she's creating. I think both of us need to focus on each other's needs but our husband's main source of happiness needs to be from God. Not us.

  • http://www.simplymelsblog.com/ Simply Mel

    I agree, Debra. Sounds like she has a strong, loving and godly marriage. Some people seem to get a thrill from leaving nasty comments and getting into it with other people on blogs! I'm like you, though. Not a nasty comment leaver.

  • http://www.simplymelsblog.com/ Simply Mel

    ugh! I just wrote a long reply to your comment and hit “backspace” and it took me out of this window so I lost my comment. GRRR. I'll have to write again later. I love long comments so don't worry ;o)

  • givinguponperfect

    Wow! What a mess! You are brave to open the door here, my friend! :) I don't think there was anything really wrong with either post, and I love how both authors seem to have arrived at peace with each other (according to the ShePosts article). But good grief, those commenters are awful!! I do not understand why anyone (much less LOTS of anyones) feel it's acceptable or appropriate to behave in such a rude, inconsiderate manner. No matter what the situation or controversy, that kind of garbage irritates me.

    As for what I believe about marriage, well, that's a blog post on its own, isn't it? :) (Sorry, I know that's a cop out, but I have a grumpy husband and sick kiddo in my living room right now and can't concentrate. AHEM, apparently I should stop blogging and get back to living!)

  • http://www.jeremyandlindsaydowns.com Lindsay

    While I was reading Scary Mommy's post, I actually didn't realize it was sarcasm. I also didn't have a problem with ANY of it – in fact, I've actually done a few of those things before myself! For example, I often ask Jeremy which things are the priority for him for the day or the week. (Granted, I'm usually saying, “If I could only get ONE THING done this week, what would it be?” but we do actually have a lot of conversations like that.)

    I really can't talk about other women's/men's relationships unless they are asking me specifically and I have the whole story. I feel like Jeremy & I have arrived at a good place where we each respect each other, our roles are pretty well defined, and we are both content with our responsibilities and jobs in our relationship. That's really all I know about that. :)

  • http://www.simplymelsblog.com/ Simply Mel

    Ok, so, I do agree with you. You come from the same background I do where we've seen more than one marriage where the wife is the servant to the husband. Meaning she pretty much does everything for him while he orders her around from the couch. I've seen many situations where I want to shout ” You have two perfectly good legs! USE THEM!” . That kind of relationship I completely disagree with. Well, for us anyway. There seem to be relationships where the wife really isn't bothered by her role as the servant wife. (And I mean “servant” as someone who serves others with a willing heart, not a slave) I'm afraid I'd get way too resentful if Mike was constantly telling or asking me to do something for him while he sad around and acted like he couldn't get up and do it himself. I already do a lot of stuff for him that many women would find “offensive” as women. But, I do stay home just for that very reason! To be a homemaker. Mike does work long and hard hours. I feel making his lunch, doing his laundry and ironing his clothes is part of my contribution to the running of our household and our marriage. But getting him his snacks and little things here and there…..some of it he's capable of doing himself! Now, will I do those little things because I love him? Yes. But not because I feel like that's my duty as a wife. I do it because I love him.

  • http://www.simplymelsblog.com/ Simply Mel

    LOL. Garbage is right! Well, then, I'd be very interested in reading YOUR blog post on marriage ;o). As you can see, I've really stirred the pot here in my little corner! haha Unless, the few readers I have that I don't know and my friends and family get into it I think it's safe to say things won't get too heated here.

  • http://www.simplymelsblog.com/ Simply Mel

    Lindsay, I think that's great. You and Jeremy have a relationship that works how you both want it to work. You love and respect each other and are raising your children in a godly manner. I think a lot of women are resentfully submissive because they do things for their husbands out of duty. Not love. I think when it gets to that point things need to be reevaluated , prayed for and talked about. Like I said to Lydia, below, I've seen to many marriages(especially ones from our type of background) where the wife almost acts as the husbands maid and errand runner. And the husband pontificates from the couch. I can't abide that. I definitely think each couple has to “do” their marriage the way that is fulfilling and God honoring to both of them. That may mean several different shifts in the traditional roles.Although, obviously, I'm a stay at home mom so I”m all for traditional roles if it works for a couple.

  • Craigsarahsam

    I didn't get the sarcasm at first, either. I'm too trusting or something . . . then when I saw the original post, I got it.

    If I read someting I don't agree with I just move on . . . I think people post before thinking sometimes.

    I enjoyed the blog drama. :)

  • Ariela

    Thanks for directing me to some other mommy blogs (I only read yours generally). I don't really want to weigh in- though I will say that I would NEVER think, not to mention WRITE, the horrible things those people were saying. But I just wanted to tell you that I was listening to the woman describe the challenge while sitting at my desk which is about two feet away from where Clayton is playing video games at his desk. He was cheering (jokingly) at everything that the woman was saying and endorsing it whole heartedly until she starting calling out “lazy husbands” who “play video games all day.” HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That shut Clayton right up. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's lazy at all, it was just funny to hear him be on her side and then abruptly change his tune. LOL. Regardless, I agree with you Mel. I'm not sure about the President/VP roles in our house, but I do think it's a partnership and as much as I need to help him through his week, he needs to help me through mine. As an aside- at our wedding we did the Jewish tradition where the bride circles the groom seven times. There are many interpretations of this. There is one about entering the seven layers of each other's souls, there's one about the wife circling the groom to show submission, etc… So we went with the soul one, further endorsed when his mother was like- Ari? Submit to anyone? This I gotta see… So I guess the complete him challenge isn't for me ;)

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